"The ultimate act of recycling"

[Zuzu's Garden]

"This Old Wasteful House" (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/06/opinion/06moe.html?_r=1&em) by the president of the National Trust for Historic Preservation on greening up an older home.

Zu

[Gigi]

Hi Zuzu--Thanks for sharing that article. It's a BIG WOW what we can do if we really think in of terms of long term planning-all that carbon-yikes. What are we doing to our Mother Earth???:mad::(

[Zuzu's Garden]

Thank you, Gigi. I thought the article might be helpful to anyone living in an older home that might qualify for the financial programs. Also, if I can put in insulation and foam around windows & doors, anyone can! I actually enjoyed doing it. :D

I live on a piece of land that once was the home of dinosaurs. Ute Indians, then Miners, then Ranchers lived here before me. We only use a small portion of the land - the rest is untouched because it is home to the wildlife that live here. I am reminded daily of a Native Indian Proverb:

We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors,
we borrow it from our Children.


Zu

[cheapdiva]

too bad this is designed for "low income" families. Why not encourage ALL people with some help.

Can I gripe for a minute?

I ABSOLUTELY believe in helping out those who are just getting by. I have 2 younger sons (23 & 25) who are in this category and I pick up clothes and personal care items for them frequently. AND I have strongly suggested they get all the help they can in the way of reduced rent and food stamps and heating help. Eventually they will be doing better.

But, the middle class is dwindling fast folks. I don't consider households making under $40,000 or over $100,000 middle class. The rich are getting richer and the middle class is slowly slipping away.

My point is this is one area where more people should be given help - it would help save our planet, put unemployed people to work and benefit all those folks who get energy help.

[Zuzu's Garden]

I agree with your point, CD - "one area where more people should be given help - it would help save our planet, put unemployed people to work and benefit all those folks who get energy help."

I've lived middle class. I've lived upper middle class. I've lived in poverty. Definitely a roller coaster ride, but full of great life lessons I cherish.

IMO, from personal experience, the middle class have an option. Spend the money on eating out and on a vacation, or insulate the house and save on heating bills. The lower class do not have options. There are gov heating programs (LEAP) for the lower class that help pay a small portion of their heating costs, but why oh why pay to heat a home with holes in it? I think this article / program is talking about fixing the holes in the programs as well as the holes in the houses for those who cannot help themselves.

There is help for middle class on up. I posted a link on CL awhile back for rebates on everything from refrigerators to solar panels. Just start with your state or utility company, and ask what is available.

Zu

Edited: A quick Google brought up the DSIRE site (http://www.dsireusa.org/).

[Lisa S]

The first thing I did when I bought this house was to have an energy audit completed. It was completely free from our utility company. When the auditor was finished, I had a laundry list of ways I could make our home more energy efficient. The biggest impact on my heating bill was caulking and insullation, both of which are cheap, cheap, cheap fixes.

[Zuzu's Garden]

CD - help for everyone is on the way! :)

New I.R.S. Incentives, From Cold to Hot (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/garden/09greenhome.html?_r=1&hpw)

[cheapdiva]

Zu-
I do agree with you about making choices - vacations or new windows. But this really does apply to ALL economic groups. My two younger (poor) sons used to complain about not having money for groceries. I opened the refrigerator door and there was plenty of beer but no milk. My comment was "you can't pour beer on your cereal". And they both managed to find money for cigarettes - not cheap.

Trust me when I tell you that I have spent many hours working/volunteering with inner city poor people here in Milwaukee. And I am always surprised that of the inner city, African American males that are unemployed here - many have cell phones, are often drinking on front porches and we have a serious drug issue. None of which is cheap. And the unemployment rate for African American males in Milwaukee is over 50%.

My original point is that without a strong middle class, there won't be help for the lower class. Our government needs to make sure the middle class isn't forgotten because I don't think even Bill Gates can finance all the programs for those that need help.

[Zuzu's Garden]

CD,

I always thought most people lived middle class, with lower percentages of the pop. in lower and upper, so I was surprised to read that in 2006, it was something like lower 33%, middle 35% and upper 32%.

There is definitely some shifting going on, the middle class appears to be shrinking (moving down or up) and many of us are feeling pinched (my job went from 40 to 24 hours a week). But, from what I'm reading, I believe things will begin to balance out in the next few years. The three links I posted previously show positive change. I'm going to file form 5695 for the wind generator we bought last year, and then put that money into the piggy bank to purchase solar panels. :)

Zu

[chyna]

I think the author of the article left out some other important points like those windows that get tossed in the landfill have far more superior wood in them than you will ever be able to purchase new now. It just aggrevates me to no end when someone buys one of these homes and the first thing they do is pull out the original windows and replace with some vinyl clad ugly window. Those who actually pay attention to the house it self and get those replacement windows that match the original I can live with but aluminum people?!!! Yep the previous owner has some on my home, I could just throttle her and her ex. :mad:

As for getting help from the government. Some people are way too proud to do it and cause their loved ones untold stress. That would be my dh (and you can bet the d doesn't stand for darling this time:mad:), we were broke, I was working a lousy job but at least working and he wouldn't fill out the paperwork. And yet there are some like diva mentioned who would rather buy crap then basic necessities. You really can't help those who don't want to be helped.:confused:

[ddddyyyy]

I agree with Zuzu's Garden






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[memmey]

Zu thanks for the info on Weatherization. I have the contact number in my state now and I think I will just do an little experiment to see if a divorced white female over 55 with a very slight income will qualify. If I don't qualify then I wonder who does.

I will be willing to take a bet that I will be turned down. I am gonna follow this through and see. See I believe that a certain demographic will always qualify but people like me that go to work and pay their bills on time but struggle to live a decent respectable life style with a very small income will not get the assistance.

I believe that most middle class Americans , if the given the choice, would rather see their taxes spent on a strata of people who will use the help as a hand up not a hand out. I have always said here that I thought being thrifty was clever and a desired ability/trait. You can live a clean gracious upstanding life albeit with not much money if that is your character/integrity.

Hard work never hurt anyone and if you have good taste then it won't matter what your income is, you will keep your home with pride. A clean old floor or a clean new foor is still a clean floor.....I'm just saying.

[vintage girl]

I absolutely 100% feel that we are losing our middle class. I have worked since I was 14 years old, have never taken any type of social services, even though there were some very tough times. Well living in Southern CA, I am sure all of you have read the newspapers, and know the hard economic times we are going through. We still have no state budget and they are trying to balance the economy on the backs of the "workers". They just added a third furlough day(day without pay) and are handing out IOU's. But none of those hard-working people taking the furloughs can get any assistance, even though their income has been reduced by over 20%. Yet we still give out welfare right and left. California has 31% of the nations welfare recipients living here. They keep raising our taxes and lowering our income,so we can continue to pay social services. It is a vicious cycle. I am considered middle class, but by the time I get through paying for everyone else, I end up lower class! It is also very difficult to qet rebates from our local electric companies (I have tried), because they always come back and say they are out of money, or I don't qualify. I hope our world will use this economic crisis we are in to step back and look at how our ancestors lived. People found ways to take care of themselves and each other rather than relying on the government to help them out. I do believe we need social services, but not to the level it has become. I definately believe in a hand up to those who help themselves, but not a constant hand out. There is only so much to go around. We are finding that out the hard way right now. Sorry for my soapbox, but we are getting pretty fed up here in CA. It is not such a great place to live or even visit anymore:(

[Zuzu's Garden]

Mem wrote:
I will be willing to take a bet that I will be turned down. I am gonna follow this through and see. See I believe that a certain demographic will always qualify but people like me that go to work and pay their bills on time but struggle to live a decent respectable life style with a very small income will not get the assistance.

You might be turned down for one program, but may I say that with a little hunting around, you will find programs that you qualify for. There are programs out there that will help everyone. Like Lisa mentioned, energy audits are offered free by many utility companies. In my community, church members help with minor maintenance, like caulking, for free (but I'd bake them some cookies!) Rebates and tax refunds are available when you buy certain energy efficient products - if you look for them, you'll find them. Maybe start out by calling your utility company and tell them you'd like to know what help is available in making your home more energy efficient.

This may seem completely ridiculous to many (especially to those keeping up with the Joneses), but Hubby and I made the choice to step back in time and live a life more like our Great-Grandparents'. A small home that is cost efficient. Instead of a dishwasher, I wash/dry the dishes by hand. Instead of a vacuum, I sweep/mop the floors. Instead of a microwave, I cook on the stove. Instead of a electric mixer, I use a whisk... instead of credit cards, we pay cash. Turns out, we are happier now than we ever were working stressful jobs in software and living in a McMansion.

Taking a step back, for us, has been a giant step forward.

Zu

[vintage girl]

Zu,

You are so right. We really do need to step back. I was encouraged to sell our little 1000 sq ft home and trade it in for the McMansion, many times over the years. Luckily I was not interested. Unlucky for those who did who now do not even have a home due to unwise decisions, raising interest rates or unemployment. I have never been one to keep up with the Joneses. I am just somone trying to make ends meet in a very uncertain and rough economy. A first step is to scale down on life and expenses, but until our lawmakers and the rest of the world gets on board, and we quit taking care of everyone who would rather not work, it won't make a difference.

[CohenCottage]

I'd love to step back, but I want to take my Miele with me. Sweeping Golden retriever hair stinks big time. You end up chasing clumps of hair in the breeze. :D

[cheapdiva]

I don't mind doing dishes at all . . . but a sink would help!!! (Kitchen cabinets going in on the 22nd - then we'll order countertops and be able to have a sink!).

I harped early on in this post. Agree with many of you (Mem!) - a helping hand, not a hand out. I don't even mind the hand out if you will then do the same to someone else. I think the middle class is shrinking - fast. The haves seem to keep getting and the have nots need the help. It is very scary.
How are my two younger kids who will probably never make more than just over minimum wage ever get ahead? I know, I know, education. HOWEVER we have friends whose kids have graduated and can't find jobs . . . end up moving back home and taking whatever they can find.

Not all kids are going to go to college and good manufacturing jobs just don't exist much any more.

[vintage girl]

Cheap Diva,

You are so right about no jobs being available. My daughter graduated from High School last year, and is now going to our local community college. They did not offer the classes she needed for this summer,so she is taking some time off until September. She has been trying to get a job forever. There is literally nothing out there. She has put in literally dozens of applications both in person and on-line. I also have three friends who worked in the mortgage industry and they have been out of work for over 6 months. Two are going back to school to get their LVN and the other two are just barely hanging in there. One is about to lose her home because her husband just had his hours cut in half, and they simply cannot make it. It is very sad:(

[RoseMary]

Times are tough right now. Both of our daughters have graduated from college, but the jobs just aren't there. Our town is small and nothing is available. And, being part of the 'working poor' class, we can't afford to rent an apartment, buy a car for them, or anything else to get them started. But we have always supported ourselves and live on what we make. We built a small house, paying as we went. We stay out of debt.

I am wondering, though, what is going to happen to all the people in the McMansions? They've lost their jobs and they want us to help them out. Are people like us going to have to pay for their house and their utilities in those huge things?

Where my brother lives, window a/c (which is cheaper to run) is not allowed in their type of neighborhood, and so many people aren't able to afford the repair bills for their two large central a/c units when they go out. So, will there be legistlation passed for us to repair it for them? When you live in a city and the temperature is 105 degrees, going without a/c is almost impossible. Maybe they will open shelters:confused:.

The only sensible thing, IMO, will be to turn the McMansions into duplexes or small apartments.

[chyna]

I've wondered about those McMansion subdivisions myself, heck I wondered what would happen to them before this down turn. many of those homes are now up for sale. Who is going to be buying them with things not looking all that rosy right now? It is a scary thing out there.

[vintage girl]

My small little town was filled with modest homes on large acreage until about 5 years ago. They sold out for the money that property taxes bring in (or were bringing in), and started building McMansions in the hills. Well now you drive up there and there are whole streets that the homes are empty. The town is not getting the tax revenues, so they are also going broke. The homes that are left are costing a fortune in water and electricity, and now we are being told we have to cut back on both or get fined. I do not have central air or heat. I have a wall furnace and window air conditioners. Yet I still am being told I am over my base-line and being fined every month. I swear they are punishing the rest of us to keep up with the expenses they brought on themselves, by allowing the developers to build these monstrosities and use up every available piece of land. Now with almost empty neighborhoods, the property values are dropping even less. I live in California, so the outcome is even worse, as we also still do not have a state budget and are going broke. I work for the schools, and that is falling apart also. I wish I could click my heels together and land someplace else, at least until the economy gets better!

[RoseMary]

I'm sorry for all the mess you Californians are going through, vintagegirl. I think a lot more states will be in big trouble very soon (some already are and just aren't 'advertising' it, yet). I know a lot of news reports are saying that the economy has 'bottomed-out'. I wish that was true-hope it is true. But I don't think so:(.

My dad is convinced we are in for another Great Depression. I know we are probably in for some very hard times, but I hope it doesn't come to that.

[chyna]

Vintage

Move to Montana, everybody else seems to be. :rolleyes: I do know what you mean about subdivisions/streets full of empty houses. the Mushroom farm is full of signs now for Homes for Sale where before there was construction workers everywhere. I knew when I saw them all going up so fast that it wasn't good news and looks like I was right. It is sad in so many ways.

[ChapterTwo]

Move to Montana, everybody else seems to be. :rolleyes:

It's so funny (well, in a sad, overcrowded way), that an awful lot of people in an awful lot of states say the same thing.

Should we be thinking population control?

We do live in the NY Metro area, but what used to be called "sleepy little bedroom communities" (a.k.a. "suburbs") never used to have so many people.